socratice seminar

close ended question- Why did Luce say that he like dating a chinese woman apposed to dating a person from the Western Hemisphere?

Open Ended question- with all the people Holden has encountered, who do you think has made the most lasting impact on Holden? who do you think Holden enjoyed his encounter with the most?

World Connection- How is Holden similar to the teenages in todays culture, rather then the teenagers of his time?

Universal Theme- is "The Catcher in the Rye" a critisism of the teenage conformity of the 50's that was going on so frequently?

Literary Analysis Question- How does the language and attitude Holden gives off effect your reading and thought process through the book?

open ended Q- i believe that Holdens encounter with Maurice and Sunny has changed him thorought the book. it kind of scarred him in the book and it seems like he doesnt trust many people while he was in New York perhaps because of Maurice. I believe he enjoyed his encounter with the nuns the most in the book because he talks a little better about Christianity like when he was talking about Allie's death and he isnt as bitter towards organized religion

marriage poem

What is marriage?
is it just a ring on a finger next to the pinkey
or an excuse for good-moraled Christian couples to get...kinkey.
is the love deeper then the waters of the atlantic ocean
or as shallow as the puddles that we all have the notion
to jump in
just like some couple do
when they say "I DO"
which is why 50% end in divorce
but the other 50 which make the choice
to stay together until "death due us part"
and staying together until death is an art
because that passion that is only found in the heart
is the passion to stay together with the one you love
and when you are finally there, in the "Great Above"
standing before God looking into your love's eyes
realizing you are still with them, even after you've died.

song comparrison

the song "Second Chance" by Shine Down relates to Holden in many different ways. the lyrics "tell my mother, tell my father, ive done the best i can, to make them relize this is my life, i hope they understand" can relate to Holden and why he doesnt want to go home in the chapters 19-21, even though he finally does. He knows his parents wont accept his life choices so he doesnt want to have to face them. the Lyrics "im not angry, im just sayin....sometimes goodbye means a second chance" can relate to Holden when he tries to convince sally to run off to massachusettes or Vermont with him. he thinks that he could turn his life around and get a second change in his life. this song can relate to Holden's outgoiningness with the lyrics "please dont cry one tear for me, im not afraid of what i have to say". Holden doesnt care what us, as readers think of him. he will say and do as he wants it seems. he may care what some people in the book cared about him but he doesnt seem like he minds what we as readers think of his thoughts and just wants to get his opinions out to us. Holden isnt afraid of what he has to say to us because he doesnt care what we think about him in my opinion

extra credit please?.......

Holden seems to think that all of the "adults" in his family are phony. he says that he mom flips out about things and worries like when he gets kicked out of his boarding schools. he also talks about his father who used to be Catholic and is now an atheist and seems to think that his dad was a phony as well. we all konw that he doesnt respect D.B. and even says that his brother is in Hollywood being a prostitute, which indicates that he does not respect his brother. he does respect his two younger siblings, Allie (dead brother) and Phoebe (younger sister). he says that both of them are brilliant and you could tell that he really loves them. when you are young like his younger siblings were, you arent "phony" and you dont care what people think, which i think Holden idolized in his younger siblings, but he never saw that trait in D.B. or his parents

chapters 16-18 post

"Did you ever get fed up?" i said. "I mean did you ever get scared that everything was going to go lousy unless you did something?"

this quote from Holden is when he is talking to Sally Hayes on their date and he starts talking about how he HATES school. this shows us that Holden is thinking about a change in his life and that he wants to do something about his life.

i think that this quote shows us that Holden is maturing and has come to this relization that he has to change something in his life or else nothing will change.

Holden follows this up with later trying to convince Sally to run away to Massachucetts or Vermont and live off of the money he has and then get some sort of job and marry Sally. this shows us that Holden is really considering ways that he can change his life and be successful, even if running away from everything isnt the best answer, he is still looking for answers. Holden needs to change his life and this is a good indicater that he will try to change his life.

That Relgion assigment blog.

i dont think Holden has a problem individual relgious beliefs. he seems accepting of Christianity even though he says that he isn't one. i think he is more against the idea of organized religion, especially Catholosism because Catholosism may be the most organized religion there is, not in a good or in a bad way. i did enjoy his outlook on the disciples and how he didnt like them. Holden met the Nuns and had them judged before he met them. he talks about how Catholics always try to figure out if you are Catholic or not which i disagree with. in today's culture, I usually dont find out someone is Catholic or any religion unless i ask them. Holden usually doesnt like being controlled and a common steriotype of organized relgion is that it is very controlling

grow up holden.....seriously, grow up

Holden likes to act like an adult. he buys alcohol, calls up ex strippers, and flirts with older woman in the clubs......he kind of sounds like he belongs in our generation. he can act as old as he wants but if he comesback after being punched in the face with "you go wash your stupid face" he wont be treated like an adult. if he acted like an adult, he wouldnt of been punched in the face anways. i know he is in the stage of growing up and doesnt exactly know how to take it like most late-teenagers do. i wish i was grown up but im not going to go out to a cedar falls night club and try to get entoxicated and pick up girls (like grown-up men do?). Do what real grown men do Holden, drink scotch and read a good novel by the fireplace in a robe and spectacles at night. As long as your are a kid, you're going to be treated like a kid and there is nothing you can do. even if you act mature and follow the rules like we are told, we are still considered young because we arent our own person. if we branch out and act rebelious, we are just looked at as immature and not acting like we should. we all just have to wait until we are older i guess. well its pretty late and im going to bed. goodnight morons.

motivation

Holden does not have much motivation in school, which is pretty evident due to him failing out of at least 2 private boarding schools. He obviously doesnt have respect for his parents or other authority figures. when he visited his history teacher, he wouldnt even listen to what he said, all he could focus on was his ex-teachers physical appearence. in our culture today, a lot of our motivation just to go to school is out of our parents desire and our desire to please our parents. even if you go to school, not a lot of people give their 100% effort because of how easy we think it is to be successful. most of us would say that our parents are successful because they have jobs, a nice house for us to live in, and a nice family. and we all know our parents arent always the smartest people in the world.....so we believe that if everything worked out for them, it will work out for us as well. the economy was much better when our parents were job hunting though, but hopefully our economy will get better by the time we are out of college. i do not believe we have a lack of respect towards authority figures though. we still obey a lot of rules in our society and in our school. Holden's attitude doesnt bode well for his reputation of his attitude towards authority figures. he says that the Deans of his schools were morans and not very smart. he doesnt talk well about his authority figures which would indicate that he doesnt respect his authority figures. i dont know if Holden thinks everything will be alright in the future, or if he thinks that his parents will always just give him money and bail him out, but from what i can tell, he doesnt really care about what happens to his future.